So, when I started this blog, I was amazed to see a size 7Y, because this has always been a men's size when I was growing up.
How have things changed!
There is almost universal agreement that 7 is clearly a boys size.
But there are now even larger youth sizes
There are 8Y
9.5Y
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And even 10.5Y!
Clearly, even double digits aren't safe from being considered boys size.
Wow, a 10.5Y!? I thought 9.5 was the GS "Y" cut off... Will have to look into that, must be rare. But it's still probably gonna get in my head that even a 10.5 could be considered a "youth" size, which is supposed to be for boys up to 12 yo or for girls right? Sigh...
ReplyDeleteEssentially it is only one model that goes to 10.5Y it seems. That makes me feel a little better. Looks like they might even go up to a 12Y.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.goat.com/sneakers/air-jordan-11-retro-premium-gs-heiress-852625-030
As you know I love the extended GS line. They are larger sizes but still narrow, so they can often pass for a smaller size. Like an 8Y can be mistaken for a 7Y sometimes, as the narrowness makes it look more like a boy's shoe (7 or below). A 9.5Y will actually fit big but still look smaller. I have not heard of anything above 9.5Y but I guess there is a least 1 Jordan model that goes that high...
ReplyDeleteWhat if there was a size 12Y that could give the illusion of being a size 8? That would be pretty cool. Maybe make a size 12Y that was the same width as a size 7Y? That would get interesting...
Do you think 12Ys will be mainstream by then, lol?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you expect in 2025 then?
ReplyDeleteIf I wear 10Y, which will be way too big on me, will people mistake it for a size 7 ot 8 because it is so narrow? ;-)
ReplyDeleteHoly crap, found a chart that lists up to 15Y!
ReplyDeletehttps://j23app.com/jordan-womens-size-chart?extended=true
hmm, seems those larger Y sizes are probably more hypothetical, but maybe they think some day they will make a 15Y... Grade School is considered up to age 12 I believe...it would be impressive to see a 12 year old with size 15 feet!
DeleteThere was a 12 yo kid in summer camp, when I was a counselor, whose feet were probably a size 12. He actually wore a size 9.5 that were way too small for him and his toes had clearly stretched the sneakers. Next year he was back at age 13 and wearing a size 13, that ironically he said were also too small for him! Not sure how big his feet ended up, he didn't come back the following year. He was about 6 feet tall at age 12 and at 13 he had grown to 6'2". He was also super skinny at age 12 and much beefier at age 13 and was already growing some facial hair too!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think I have seen that thread before. About kids 12 wearing a size 13 and kids 11 wearing a size 11... When I was 11 my shoe size was probably a 6, though I can't remember exactly. I know my feet stopped growing at sz 9 when I was 12 and that seemed big for about 6 months...I assumed they would grow more and they didn't. I wore sz 10-11 for a couple years until it became clear my feet were going to be stuck on the small size and I need to stop faking and embrace small!
ReplyDeleteI felt like it was sort of normal at the time but I also quickly started wearing size 10-11 around then and there were others wearing size 10-11 too. I started to feel the pressure to go bigger. It was a time when lots of kid's feet were growing. There were kids who had like a size 7.5-8 but were starting to bust out of them because their feet were growing so big. I remember one kid who I thought had smaller feet than me because he was wearing an old size 8 but then I realized his toes were literally beyond the end and next thing I knew he was in a size 11. Around that time I started to realize 9 was not so big, especially by the time I was 13 it was starting to become very clear that my feet were on the small side.
ReplyDeleteI think it probably is normal for a 12yo. I wouldn't expect the average to be smaller and definitely some are bigger by 12 too.
ReplyDeleteI was definitely not a sz 8 at age 11. I think I was more like a sz 6-7 when I was 11. I think I was a 7.5 when I first turned 12 and then some time while I was 12 my feet grew to a size 9, probably when I was getting closer to 13. I remember the 7.5 suddenly becoming small and then I was measuring a size 9.
ReplyDeleteThen when I was 13 I started wearing sz 10 because it seemed like all the kids were wearing bigger than 9 and then went to an 11 and even an 11.5 with my next pairs because I remember 10 was starting so seem small compared to other kids. I remember the 11.5 was so huge that I had to wear 3 insoles in them so they would seem to fit me. I am much happier to embrace small than having to play the games of pretending to be bigger.
ReplyDeleteWell, that depends...I am happy to tell people I am a size 7-8 even though it is smaller than my feet really are :-) But I know most people wouldn't feel that way, including most here...
ReplyDeleteBeing size 9 is too stuck between acceptable and small...and with my feet looking small, because they are skinny/short toes, etc...I prefer to be known as a size 7-8. Then you don't have to worry about people thinking your feet look small but are not really small, etc... It is easier to actually "be" small than in between. No one questions that and I think people are in a way more accepting if you are actually small rather than part way there.
Just looking at this discussion now, been MIA for a bit...
ReplyDeleteI think I was probably 12-13 when my feet stopped growing, I can't remember exactly. I know I kept hoping my feet would grow more. I think I was like an 8.5 at age 12 and I remember the 8.5s getting kind of small maybe shortly after I turned 13? My feet are annoyingly a whole size different (right 8.5, left 9.5). Could have been that the right stayed 8.5 and the left grew to 9.5 but I can't really remember. I so wish both my feet were a 9.5, that would be more acceptable. My feet almost look like they should belong to different people. Left looks long and skinny and the right looks shorter and wider. I feel like my left foot looks marginally acceptable but the right just looks "small". Anyhow I have been wearing a size 10.5-11.5 (occasionally 12) since about age 13ish. I am just glad my feet are big enough that wearing an acceptable size (although maybe a bit big) is wearable and not to the level of clown shoes or anything.
I would not ever want to do anything to make my feet look smaller, lol. I feel a little lucky that at least one of my feet is 9.5. Even if my right shoes can seem really huge, at least the left shoes are limited to only moderately huge in say a size 11 or 11.5 (depending on the brand).
Yeah, as I have said before, my shoe size is very acceptable as long as people don't see my feet and realize they are so much smaller or feel how much toe room I have in my shoes, lol!
DeleteWhen I go to buy shoes, even if it is not self service, the clerk almost never feels to see how the shoes fit or anything and I always take off and put on the new shoes quickly so they can't see my feet really. Generally I can get away with people not knowing my feet are really smaller. And more insoles and thicker socks can help too to make shoes fit/feel smaller.
DeleteTrue, me wearing an 11.5 is more like you wearing an 8-9 (assuming your feet are both the same size, unlike me...)
DeleteMy smaller foot being an 8.5 does limit things more for me unfortunately. It means a lot of 11.5s are just far too big for my right foot, so that has limited me to 10.5 in a lot of styles. If both my feet were 9.5 then 11.5 would be much more doable, hence my frustration...
DeleteThis discussion is sort of amusing... JBCx and I have essentially the same size feet and yet we could be side by side and he might be wearing an 11.5 and I might be wearing a 7 and it would seem worlds apart...take our shoes off and we would be nearly identical. Though my feet would actually be bigger than JBCx's right foot. Barefoot at the pool or something we would look very similar, though I still bet my feet would probably look smaller since they are probably skinnier and with probably shorter toes. Everyone says my feet look smaller than a 9! Short toes make my feet look really stubby.
DeleteSmallShoeSizeGuy: 10.5 is ok, but 11-11.5 is better, makes me feel more confident :-)
DeleteSmallSneakersRFun: You are going to start messing with my head now! I don't need a reminder of how small my feet tend to look with my shoes off...I keep them hidden and luckily most people don't feel for my toes...that hasn't happened since high school, lol.
I would say that "normal" is probably anywhere from sz 10-12US but 10 is the low end of that so 10 often looks slightly small to me, which is why I always like to wear at least a 10.5 but 11-11.5 starts to get to a size where people won't say "oh that looks a little small". 11-11.5 is better but it is also very normal. You have to go to at least size 13 before you are out of normal range, though a lot of people do wear a 13 these days. Also, I know a guy who is 6'2" who wears a size 10.5 so that makes it seem not too bad. But at that height 10.5 starts to look a little small.
ReplyDeleteI would also agree that 11 is pretty normal these days. Size 7 is pretty rare, so I feel like I really stand out :-) Even really short guys tend to wear size 8 I think, even if they are too big. If I see someone wearing shoes and think, "they are pretty small", mostly they are not smaller than an 8.
ReplyDeleteDepends on the shoe I think too. Some shoes look smaller in a 9 than others. But 9 is marginal, it leaves you stuck in limbo...it is not quite big and it is not quite small either...though it is small enough that people tend to view it as small-ish. You want to avoid being a 9, you need to choose either big or small and not get stuck in the middle! ;-)
ReplyDeleteYeah totally, I think of anything up to 9.5 really as big kids. GS sizes go to 9.5Y, that says it all. And there are definitely a lot of kids 10-12 who are already a 9 at least.
DeleteIn a strange way we all sort of agree on that...9 is a size you don't want to be! For me I choose to go bigger and SSRF choose to go smaller... Size 9 is uniquely situated where you could go either way, although going bigger would seem easier, more likely to be comfortable, more socially acceptable, not demoralizing, etc... Wearing size 10.5-11.5 my shoes can look totally normal size. I have tried on size 8-8.5s in the past that have fit me better than I would like to admit, but I wouldn't want to wear them normally. Why feel demoralized when you can avoid it? Especially day in and day out...
DeleteSSSG, if I had size 6s like you I would definitely be wearing at least a size 8 so it was more socially acceptable. It seems like you could avoid the issues you have described - with people picking up your shoes and being shocked they are a size 6, etc? I would think it would make life better where you were not having to constantly worry about people finding out about your extra small size and having to buy shoes in the kids section, etc?
SSSG, if you are really closer to a 5 I can see why 8 might be a stretch :-/ I can usually go at least 2 sizes up, though 2 sizes is actually 3 sizes on my right foot. If my right foot was a 9.5 like my left I could easily do 11.5 for all shoes, but the right is what usually causes me to drop back to 11 or 10.5. Heck, if my right was an 9.5 too I could probably wear a 12 even :-)
DeleteAs far as wearing shoes too big reminding me of your small feel...that can be an issue if I go "too" big. The room on my right shoe usually reminds me of that and is a limiting factor. Still I am more worried about how they look to others than if they are reminding me my feet are small... So I am all in on the illusion ;-) As long as the size I am wearing is not so big that I am tripping and I can walk normally and they feel comfortable, that's the big thing and I do strive for that! For the most part in skate shoes I can easily go to 11.5 but in Nikes/Jordans 10.5 is more likely to be the limit. In Nike dunks I can usually go up to sz 11 without them being too crazy. And an extra insole or socks that are not too thin always helps too :-)
reminding me of your --> reminding me of my
DeleteWow, I feel called out for wearing 9's!
DeleteMy true size is an 8, but as long as they have decent padding, i can make 9s work.
Probably because I'm used I
To 9s, 8s feel tight around the midfoot, but 10s just feel too loose for me.
For me, 9 is just "a small men's size", whereas if I wore 8s, I'd be thought of as having boy sized feet.
It's definitely interesting hearing about everyone's psychology on the topic of wearing bigger, smaller, or "correct" fits.
Maybe it's because I have been wearing bigger shoes for a long time now, but to me going a size or 2 too big is not usually a biggie, it feels normal to me. It doesn't really remind me of my foot size, unless I am feeling where my toes are or something. And I am not really worried about others finding out, as even my friends don't ever "check" to see where my toes are, lol. Actually, rather than having big sizes feel too big it is more likely that a smaller size being too big will remind me more... Like if a sz 10-10.5 fits super big that will remind me more how small feet are than if an 11.5 fits similarly big. When I was back in school I worried more about being found out for wearing shoes that were big than I do now. As an adult no one ever thinks twice about whether your shoes are the right size for you, lol! I suspect it is not uncommon for people to wear shoes too big and do what I do, especially for people with feet under size 10. There is a lot of pressure out there to not be viewed as "small" as a guy. You might think being all grown up I wouldn't care as much, but I still do.
DeleteAnd I use "smaller size" relatively...
DeleteAs the black sheep here I just have to rofl at this discussion thread, lol :-)
DeleteIt's true that a lot of guys are very conscious of their shoe size. I find it amusing. You might say that me wearing smaller sizes is sort of a middle finger to all that, lol! I can escape all that, I am just "small" or "impossibly small" as I have been told. When a kid puts his bare foot next to my size 7 shoes and his foot is literally longer than my shoe itself that's when I become "impossibly small" to them. I am not even competition, I am out of the race! And yes, that's happened with a 12 year old...he was in flip flops and just blown away by my tiny Jordan 7Ys and just seemed totally weirded out by it, lol. He was like a size 12 and also bigger/heavier than me. The competition starts early, lol! :-)
By "the competition starts early" I mean people start to care early...not just that feet are getting bigger earlier. The 12 year old in question just seemed so empowered over how huge his feet were compared to mine. It was a whole domination thing to him, even at age 12. He was already alpha to an adult to an extent he almost thought impossible to be true.
DeleteI have always been beta, never alpha, but that's ok. I know I can't be alpha (not even to a 12 year old sometimes), I learned that when I was young. It is much better to accept beta then to pretend to be alpha when you just aren't. Then you are no better than the guy with a comb over trying to pretend he isn't loosing his hair. If I tried to pretend I was a normal size, 10, 11, 12 I know it would fail. Maybe JBC can pull it off but he is still worried about it clearly. It is less stressful to embrace what you are. It is when you are trying to fool the world or hide things that it gets stressful. I knew I wanted to avoid all that. Accept what you are and own it and it becomes a non issue...you can even have fun with it like I do ;-)
DeleteI get what you are saying. Sometimes it is tempting to not try to compete in a world where most people are bigger but being on the edge (small but not really small) I feel like I can pull it off. It can be stressful sometimes because I don't want people to know my true size, but at the same time it would be hard to change now too. To suddenly wear smaller shoes. I know my friends would make jokes or think it was weird that for some reason my feet had shrunk (even if in good humor, I would rather avoid that humiliation). I am stuck with this. It is what people expect and it is ingrained in me. And society values "big" there is just no way around that. Bigger sizes are comfortable for me, even if they are a bit big, so I can deal with it.
DeleteI know I'm not alone, I know there are others who wear their shoes big like I do and for similar reasons. And sometimes even bigger than I do. I bet there are more guys my foot size and smaller wearing 12 and 13 than you would think! Though probably more so with teens than adults. I used to try to go bigger when I was a teen too, but it got sort of ridiculous and other kids could tell. Now I go bigger, but not so big I am tripping, lol.
DeleteI always feel like below sz 8 is a kid's size, but some would probably say below size 7, since some brands do consider 7 mens while others don't. With Nike a mens doesn't start until 7.5 but adidas starts mens at 7. On the other end I think you have to be a size 10 to be solidly mens and not still potentially boys. So solidly mens 10, solidly boys 6.5...with grey in between. Occasionally I can get a size 6.5 that will actually fit me :-) But usually I have comfort problems going below 7-7.5, even with some stretching.
Delete*The Nike extended GS range going to 9.5 means that you can's say solidly mens until size 10. Of course some have pointed out that GS have been seen even above that, but I will consider those outliers and feel that 10 is a safe place to start solidly men's sizes.
DeleteI agree that a solid boy's size is probably 6.5, for the reasons SSRF stated, but I also understand why he would say below sz 8 starts feeling like boys too. I think few men go below sz 8 even if they are really smaller. When it comes to solidly mens I would say 10 is probably accurate, though I would argue 10.5 is "more" solidly mens (as I've said before). With a size 10 you are on the edge of the fence, you could fall off ;-) 10.5 and you have more buffer.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAnd actually no one cares if you are solidly boys. They only care if you are solidly mens. There are the men and the boys. To be a "real" man you have to be at least a 10 (preferably 10.5) and anything below that starts to feel like boys (or even girls as you say of 6.5). The technicality of how small you need to go to be solidly boys (or maybe girls) doesn't matter really. No one "wants" to be solidly boys (well maybe SSRF would...) or solidly girls, but people do want to be solidly mens. So from a realistic (vs technical perceptive) you could argue that 10 (or even 10.5 or above) or above : mens; and below 10: boys. And below 7 girls?
DeleteSo on women (or girls) sizes... Size 10 is the largest womens size made (by most brands) so size 10 in womens is like 13 in mens you could say. There are bigger, but it becomes more rare. A size 10 in womens is a size 8.5 in mens. So really below 9 in mens gets into female territory. A 6.5 in boys = an 8 in womans. I know a lot of women who wear larger than that. Size 9 (which is a 7.5 in mens) is pretty common to see how. But even worse is that the Nike GS sizes were originally extended sizes for girls. So a 9.5 GS size would be an 11 in womens. So womens sizes are creeping up too. So really below 10 in mens and you are also starting womens territory... Thinking about it kinda makes me want to start wearing size 12 now with more liners, lol... As a size 12 you are truly solidly mens and not in danger of being anywhere near falling off the fence and becoming boys or women/girls sizes.
Was at a family event yesterday and friends of friends were there and there was this Navy guy in his early 20s. He was like 5'10" and was pretty jacked but he was wearing vans that have caught my eye as looking really small. Someone else was wearing like size 14 and there was a comment about the guys big feet and then that started a discussion of shoe sizes and the GF of the Navy guy jokes about her BF's small feet. He shrugs and says something about them not being that small. And his GF is like, those vans are a size 6.5. And he replies that he is usually an 8 but has had those vans since high school and they fit great and he likes them (you could tell he toe was just about hitting the end).
DeleteIt struck me that he was a pretty macho guy, bulging muscle and talking about being tough and yet he was completely unconcerned about wearing small shoes or having small feet. What was crazy to me was that having small feet he didn't even mind wearing even smaller shoes. Maybe if I looked like him I would be less self conscious about my feet too, but I doubt it, it felt so cringe worthy, I couldn't understand how he seemed so unconcerned and not embarrassed at all. I guess that's what confidence does for you...clearly something I lack...
On the topic girl's shoes...the Navy guy's size 6.5 vans seemed totally like a girls size. When he first came in I looked at his shoes first and instantly assumed it was a girl...until I looked up and I am like WTF! I hadn't really thought about it that much before, SSSG but you are so right that a 6-6.5 looks like a girl's size.
DeleteI like your story about the Navy guy JBCx. This is the type of story that helps me to embrace small sizes. Growing up I knew a few kids who were like that, reasonably tall, confident, maybe even muscular, but still had small feet and it didn't bother them. This shows that small feet are ok and if you embrace them and make them you they won't destroy your confidence either. The fact that you say he was even wearing shoes that were smaller than his size makes it very obvious that he was totally comfortable with his small feet. A lot of vans tend to fit pretty large and look small. I would have loved to see that. I am assuming you didn't get any pictures? I know I can fit most vans in a size 7-7.5 comfortably, I don't think I have tried 6.5 but now it makes me wonder...
DeleteSSSG, exactly! If you are confident in other ways shoe size becomes a non-issue!
DeleteI am sure I am not confident in *all* other ways, but when it comes to shoe size I am! I would need to work on the bulging muscles for a start, lol, but for the most part I am happy with me :-)
I just came across this which is sort if interesting. Height in inches vs US shoe size. Based on my height I should be an 11, but wearing a 7 (or even really being a size 9) I should be 5'5" or shorter :-) I have always been an outlier, that makes me rare and special ;-)
Delete5’5″ or shorter 7 to 9
5’6″ to 5’9″ 9.5 to 10.5
5’10” to 6’2″ 11 to 12.5
6’3″ and taller 13 to 20+
SSSG, I guess I don't have enough fitness, strength, strength of character, deep voice and confidence to make up for my smaller feet... In a way it would be liberating to not have to play the game, to be like the Navy guy at the party and not care, I do envy that in a way (even though it is at the same time very cringeworthy to me, which is why I know I can never get there). But I think the Navy guy (and SSRF) is rare, I think most people do care and it is connected to their confidence/ego.
DeleteSSSG, I am not surprised about your cherry picking story. A slender size 6 probably does probably look female :-(
SSRF, I have not seen a size chart spell it out quite like that but clearly I should be in the size 11-12.5. I try to wear 11s when I can. I guess even 10.5s are considered small for 5'11" :-( My true size being 9-9.5 puts me uncomfortably in the 5'5"-5'6" range and my friend who is 5'6" even wears a 10 (and I know he is true to size because one time he was not looking I put my foot next to his and mine was clearly smaller). This makes me feel more like I need to make size 11-11.5 work more often, more insoles to the rescue!
It was cringe-worthy because I was thinking what it would be like to be in his shoes (literally). It just seems like a really embarrassing position to be in...to be have small feet and be wearing small size 6.5 shoes (that were even 1.5 sizes smaller than his already small feet) and then have someone bring it up in a conversation. I would want to slip through a crack in the floor or something if I was put in that position. And yet the Navy guy was perfectly ok with it and had chosen to wear these small shoes that he liked - he could have avoided it but didn't. I wish I had that type of confidence, but it is so counter to everything I would do it is hard to fathom. So that's why I say cringe-worthly...and yeah, shame and embarrassment too.
DeleteI even had a dream about it the other night...that I was at another party with the Navy guy and everyone was asked to take their shoes off I guess and when we went to leave someone handed me the Navy guy's size 6.5 shoes by mistake and I guess I put them on not looking at them and then when I was about to leave someone started laughing at me for putting on the wrong shoes and I hadn't even noticed because they fit me just fine and it was really embarrassing. People were saying I had little tiny feet and that I must be faking my size, etc... Then I woke up in sort of a panic... That about sums up my general anxiety about foot/shoe size...
So what was it that got over your embarrassment about your feet? Why would you say it is no longer a big deal?
DeleteThe Navy guy was a funny guy, could certainly laugh with him or even at him, though I wouldn't talk about his feet...that would be like the pot calling the kettle black! (even though he probably wouldn't mind at all)
Yeah, well, def not to that point for me! I think I would have had to do it when I was younger to have any chance, when my feet were just finishing growing. When people didn't expect me to be wearing a 10.5 or 11. Can't change now without it being too weird, too cringy.
DeleteWhen I was like 13-14 I briefly had some concern about embarrassment about my shoe size. And maybe it was not so much embarrassment as a desire to fit in, not be viewed as weak, etc. For me it was all about seeing others my height who also had small feet. It was not that common obviously, but I knew a couple of kids who were my height and like a size 7.5 and yet were super confident. That just kinda said to me that it was ok to have small feet, that I could still be cool etc. And growing up I learned that kids only make fun of you or give you a hard time about stuff if you let it bother you and react. The reaction is key. If it rolls off, no on cares, they respect that you have owned that part of you and it is no biggie. The Navy guy mentioned was smart, he owned his small feet and didn't let it bother him. Ownership is key. Everyone has things about them that are inferior. The key is to promote your strengths and downplay weaknesses (or even turn them into strengths).
ReplyDeleteDoes this look as mens, womens, big kids, or "unguessable"?
ReplyDeletehttps://i.postimg.cc/RZNHr2vq/pic2.jpg
It is really hard to tell at that angle. They don't look super small but they don't look huge either. Maybe would guess a men's 9? But again that angle makes it really hard to see the whole length of the shoes.
ReplyDeleteThanks.
DeleteThat's actually good news, if they can look like Mens 9 :)
Yeah, but again the angle and it is a photo so lacking in relative comparisons.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI had this sales clerk who said to be an 8. To create a bond or so, a happy relaxing ambiance, at any rate it was the very first thing he said, that he was "a small size too" and that this was all great.
ReplyDeleteBut a bit later that sometimes he had to buy 9s, - and the sense of greatness went up - even 9.5s,...and now it became like, well, wasn't THAT respectable?! To then go down with that "it still was only a 9", so we were peers again, in the same boat - and his face indicated the same regrettable boat 😁.